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maandag, mei 02, 2011

Results WOC Selection races

The Belgian WOC selection races took place last weekend near Chambéry.

The results can be found somewhat hidden on the FRSO site and are copied here for those who dislike PDF documents.

The team will be announced by the end of the week.

Sprint - Samedi 30 avril 2011- Montmelian
Messieurs
1 PASQUASY Fabien    0:14:59
2 MICHIELS Yannick   0:15:13
3 HENDRICKX Tomas    0:15:29
4 HOEKX Jeroen       0:16:02
5 HENDRICKX Pieter   0:16:48
6 DE NEYER Quentin   0:17:38
7 BASTIN Michel      0:18:41
- ANCIAUX Benjamin   Non Classé
Dames
1 FABRE Miek         0:17:06
Moyenne - Samedi 30 avril 2011 - Semnoz
Messieurs
1 HOEKX Jeroen       0:37:47
2 HENDRICKX Tomas    0:41:54
3 BASTIN Michel      0:41:56
4 PASQUASY Fabien    0:43:30
5 DE NEYER Quentin   0:45:02
6 ANCIAUX Benjamin   0:49:44
7 HENDRICKX Pieter   1:00:14
8 MICHIELS Yannick   1:06:16
Dames
1 FABRE Miek         0:46:55
Longue - Dimanche 1 mai 2011 - Montagne de Bange
Messieurs
1 PASQUASY Fabien    1:59:26
2 HOEKX Jeroen       2:05:26
3 MICHIELS Yannick   2:15:22
4 HENDRICKX Tomas    2:25:24
5 DE NEYER Quentin   2:44:00
- BASTIN Michel      abandon
- ANCIAUX Benjamin   abandon
- HENDRICKX Pieter   abandon
Dames
1 FABRE Miek         2:23:20

(A quick look at the tiomila results will lead to the same conclusion... search for OK Skogshjortarna)

posted by JeroenH @ 12:55  

23 Comments:

  • At 2/5/11 14:18, Anonymous Anoniem said…

    which same conclusion?

     

  • At 2/5/11 16:57, Blogger dries said…

    Hoekx and Pasquasy certain of selection for WOC is my conclusion.

     

  • At 2/5/11 20:11, Anonymous Anoniem said…

    Zijn er geen andere dames, buiten Miek, die de ambitie hebben om het WOC te lopen dit jaar?

     

  • At 2/5/11 20:17, Anonymous Jan said…

    Any chance of posting a map?

     

  • At 2/5/11 21:10, Anonymous Fabi Pasquasy said…

    Jeroen explain us your conclusion...

    I'm so curious... but I admit that I have an idea...

     

  • At 2/5/11 21:23, Anonymous Anoniem said…

    De kaarten zijn te bekijken op de blog van Yannick Michiels

    Patrick

     

  • At 3/5/11 09:14, Blogger JeroenH said…

    Fabien,

    I, just like I know everyone in the team does, would have liked more orienteers at the weekend. It is highly likely that Thomas, Ken or Geert (only the first three to come to my mind) would have had some good races.

    I know that this had been discussed to death already, but I feel like I should keep repeating it...

     

  • At 3/5/11 09:37, Anonymous Michel Bastin said…

    Jeroen,

    I also would have liked more orienteers at the weekend... and it is highly likely that those 3 guys would have suceeded at the easy physical test.

    I know that this had been discussed to death already, but I feel like I should keep repeating it...

     

  • At 3/5/11 10:09, Anonymous Fabi Pasquasy said…

    Jeroen,

    I also would have liked more orienteers at the weekend... and it is highly likely that those 3 guys and still good friends (and more other runners) would have suceeded at the easy physical test (some 16-17 years old guys of my club can make it).

    I know that this had been discussed to death already, but I feel like I should keep repeating it...

     

  • At 3/5/11 13:57, Blogger Toon Melis said…

    Well perhaps you're making a new generation that doesn't care about Woc anymore. They will only care about tiomila and jukola and maybe some other cool races (and thats not bad either). Well maybe i am also becoming one after my junior period ;)
    Too bad the guy who won the 2 last belgian champs isn't at woc . and some other top runners as well.
    Anyway those who made it, congratz. The other orienteers, well done at 10mila.

    Toon Melis

     

  • At 3/5/11 16:19, Anonymous Anoniem said…

    You’re right. It's probably funnier to go @Tiomila instead of fighting for the Belgian national team...

    Problem is not about a physical test but more about motivation.

     

  • At 3/5/11 17:15, Blogger dries said…

    OK, let's try to stay positive and make good conclusions.
    My analysis of Belgian orienteering:
    Orienteering basically is a sport which combines running in terrain, technical and mental skills.
    Most successful trainers and orienteers believe that the physical part, the technical part and the mental part are equally important. I think runners like Fabien and Michel should admit this. If mentally you are not focused on a race you cannot perform. You can discuss about performances based on controlled “following” but I will not go into this discussion.
    The Belgian Federation has focused on "running in terrain" because - they believe this is the determining factor for success on World Championships – or another important reason: lack of money. In some terrains – like Belgian terrain – Danish – maybe also WOC 2012 terrain, the focus should indeed be a bit more on this aspect of running. In other terrains like WOC 2011, 2013, focus should be again equally divided of the 3 aspects. One can discuss about the sprint-discipline of course.
    Getting deeper into the Running aspect: Running in terrain is determined by 2 things: “ground speed” (physical test) and “power running” (stability – power-uphill - stones). In the physical test there is a hill in each lap which makes the test not exclusively a ground speed test, but certainly not a complete “running in terrain” test. I believe it’s a good test for sprint races if the distance would be even lower as today. For middle and long it’s not an ideal test.
    The problem we face now in “Belgian Elite runners group” is that we are not a homogenous group with noses in the same direction because we have runners who like the test and runners who dislike the test and eventually have stopped being part of Belgium orienteering team because of this test. Now we experience even the fact that young athletes (good juniors with low ground speed) fear the test and don’t subscribe for the team anymore. The only runners who do subscribe are member of an athletics club – or have become member to increase ground speed.
    The most unfortunate thing is that ground speed actually is developed as a youngster or a junior (12-20y). If one has only run orienteering races at this stage of his/her life, it will be difficult to increase the level at higher age – and that’s exactly what’s the most frustrating about it – you have to work hard on ground speed but your results in demanding terrain are not getting any better because of this work.
    What are my conclusions?
    • More focus on ground speed for juniors
    • Balanced focus on 3 aspects of orienteering – slightly depending on WOC-terrain
    • The fact that selection races are still held in terrain that is similar to WOC is a good thing and the format should be kept like it is more or less, start times should be separated as much as possible.
    • Create homogenous group by making the physical test not exclusive – compromise by keeping the aspect of ground speed as an important factor in selection races.

     

  • At 3/5/11 20:42, Anonymous Anoniem said…

    Bel-ranking is uptodate: http://www.mazy.be/BOR/ShowRanking.php?category=H21E

     

  • At 4/5/11 06:59, Anonymous Michel Bastin said…

    Very nice and constructive article Dries.

    I agree with large parts of your analysis, but want to reflect some things about my own opinion:

    - I don’t “like” the test, but I am convinced it’s a necessary thing to reach a certain level (I’m definitely not a fast runner, made no athletics before the age of 25 and am limited by my physiology). The test of this year is in my eyes the strict minimum minimorum to achieve in matter of ground speed (3-4 guys of my running group, aged 48-52 would achieve it easily).

    - I think the attitude of many runners towards the test is wrong. It should not be seen as a barrier to the team but as a help to improve your ground speed. I already said it, but if the goal of the test would be to make it to an A final at WOC, it should be much harder, even this year (but I admit it's not so important as for WOC 2012 per example)

    - I’m not an expert in running analysis, but when I look at the results of the physical test and the Belgian mountain running champs in 2010, I see that the runners performing strong at the test (which is, as you wrote, not a running in terrain test) also performed very strong at the mountain running champs (11,5 km and 900m uphill)

    - Why not introducing a second test focused on power running and combine the results of both?

     

  • At 4/5/11 10:07, Anonymous Fabi said…

    I don't know why but I posted a message yesterday evening and it has been deleted two times... Can I send it to an administrator ?

     

  • At 4/5/11 16:15, Blogger dries said…

    Comment of Fabien below:
    Dries,

    Your conclusion is of course understandable for me and our vision / conclusion are not so far away and quite close. Maybe some light and technically changes / differences like :
    1) You mentioned "ground speed" and "power running" (stability – power-uphill - stones) like totally different things. It's partly true but you must know (I always trained like that) that both are very well related. Scientific studies showed (also Swiss orienteering studies) that you increase your speed ground by training your terrain running abilities. For e.g. the most famous marathon runners train their power running to increase their economical drills and thus be faster on their favourite distance. Same for 10km or 5km runners. I still believe that I personally increase my speed ground by working / training my strength running abilities. They are very correlated but must be trained differently. Here an interesting link / results in Malmedy (BK Moutain running) where it was almost a strength matter :
    Results

    2) I agree that - this year - some runners rejected the physical test only by motivation but not by difficulties to make it. 3'45"/km is still a "basic speed" and was therefore not at all exclusive. I think in any orienteering terrain and in any distances it's a basic speed to make A Final in World Cup or WOC races. ABSO/BVOS have set the goals to make / reach A-Final.

    3) I agree when you said if mentally you are not focused on a race you cannot perform but all athletes have to figure out some troubles / problems in their career. Personally what isn't killing me make me stronger.

    4) I know a lot of runners in my athletic club who start running at age of 35 - 40. They came from Football or Cycling. They still reach some great results (32min in 10km) later on and I'm sure - if you are a sportsman - you can raise your speed ground by appropriate training.

    5) We never discussed at this blog how to and what are the ways to increase our speed ground or terrain running abilities or technical skills or mental approach. We always discussed about the results like : inappropriate test or not, time limits too high, too low... I would like to figure out the debate by a positive reaction or question : if I didn't get the physical test this year how can I make it next year, if I'm making technical mistakes on WOC 2011 terrain how to have a clean races, how to be more focus and have a winning mental approach?

     

  • At 5/5/11 18:30, Anonymous Anoniem said…

    Although I know some who dislike the test run keep claiming that all strong Scandinavian athletes aren't fast than 'caracolles' concerning ground speed, I, as a running drill believer must say that I saw lots of blonds (Scandinavians) doing running drills on EOC and WOC Sprint, as well, as on Tiomila last weekend, as well as they do in their hometown.
    I must also say that, instead of what my good friend Dries says, the speed can still develop after being a junior. Maybe one muscle has reached it's maximum contraction speed, but with running drills, you can improve the speed of contracting and relaxing between your muscles. This must be a big relief to all of us, seniors, no longer juniors, yes we can still improve, YES WE CAN!
    My physical labo test showed me that in one year, I improved my running speed with 1km/hr, for same VO2 max, same pulse, same mmol. That's a lot!!
    About myself running Tiomila and not WOC (I know, Fabi didn't mention my name in those three names, but still I feel like it was also concerning me), I chose to run marathon this year and not WOC (terrain doesn't suit me) and concentrate on military World champs. I sometimes need mental rest too. And next year(s)) I will be back candidate (unless Fabi doesn't want me).
    I must also say, Michel isn't the fastest runner, short legs, skiing in winter because of his wonderfull deutsch accent while others can run, but still fast enough to make it to the test. Therefore, I love Michel :-)
    Last point, I started in Tiomila on leg 1, a long 1 control with quite a long path in the beginnen, and however the speed was high, T VDK passed me and he even had air left to speak to me. I will not forget this moment.
    Now, special for Fabi (in order to still be friends and maybe do WOC together some day)... I officially named my cat Emil, since I have no kids and nobody knows if this is ever gonna change.

    That's all folks, sun is outside, and in other countries, people are starving... but still, nice discussion once again :-) Hooray

    Bart D

     

  • At 5/5/11 21:39, Anonymous Fabi Pasquasy said…

    Bart, I never mentionned any names (Jeroen did) in some previous post.

    You are of course one of my best Friend and to your question, YES I Hope running a WOC with you again and have a fun banquet too ;-) Never tell anything else ?!!

    We missed you last weekend during our WOC selection races. I will follow you very close next days for your Premiere in Marathon ! Don't forget to have fun !

     

  • At 7/5/11 00:49, Anonymous Jeroen vdK said…

    About the comments above I wanted to add..something about goals in life and orienteering,

    The objective of healthy goals should be , to get to the point where you want the success that you want for yourself..not what others want for you, or what you want to beat others.
    These goals are different for everyone. For some the challenge is to master orienteering in total (because that is fullfillment for them) for others this could be a specific result( a good ranking in a certain race)

    To get to these goals everyone has made his own belief systems, ( which is formed of all influences everyone's had in their life's, which one you cannot neglect, or deny in one day)
    The important thing here is the respect....
    you can not come to consensus with another without the fully respect of others beliefs.

    To make the metaphore between the national team and a company

    In business every company, every CEO, every coworker has his ethics, beliefs ,mentality ..If you are part of the company because of your goals but your beliefs doesn't fit ..you can try for consensus or you chose other places to fullfill your goals..

    If a lot of coworkers are leaving the company maybe the company beliefs, ethics, mentality should be changed, or sometimes another management should be established ..

    It's just the way it goes in my opinion..
    Jeroen

     

  • At 7/5/11 22:34, Anonymous Pasquasy Fabi said…

    What I know is that I missed old times and fight spirit we had (see this results). I'm getting older maybe. I'll probably stop next year orienteering (or now 'cause I cannot train as I want) and stop now to argue on this blog. I always tried to have respect to everyone and try to be positive.

    I finally understand your conclusion Jeroen. Be happy I'm leaving the company...

     

  • At 11/5/11 11:11, Blogger sofie said…

    Interessant event volgende week woensdag:

    http://www.khleuven.be/sportaanbod/Wednesday-Sportfever/Toelichting-WSF/Ori-ntatierally !

     

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